Christy: 0:26

Happy Tuesday podcast land, or whatever day. You are listening to this. We are a witch, a mystic and a feminist. I am Christy, I am here with Marlena and Jamie and we are back for another episode, and this week we are going to dive into a subject we're kind of revisiting a little bit. We've discussed Twin Flames and Soulmates in a past episode, and there are two documentaries out in the world right now one on Amazon and one on Netflix that discuss something called Twin Flame Universe. There are two people that run this. I'm going to use the word cult Is it a cult? We'll leave it up to you but they run this program for people and they charge for it and they promise you that you are going to find your Twin Flame Union, and so we thought it was important to talk about this amongst ourselves and kind of discuss the issues and dangers that can come from things like this right People that prey on vulnerable, or people that are seeking right. You're seeking love, you're seeking acceptance, and in the spiritual communities it isn't regulated. There's not regulations in the spiritual community. So we just really want to discuss how to discern who you should be listening to, who it be not listening to, and for everyone it's going to be unique and personal. So now that I've said all of that, welcome again and let's dive in. So there are two documentaries, like I mentioned. They both deal with Jeff and Shalia Divine, who are the founders of this program. The first documentary is called Desperately Seeking Soulmates and that's on Prime, and then the other one is called Escaping Twin Flames on Netflix.

Marlena: 2:10

So and wow.

Jamie: 2:13

And wow, wow, yeah, I was going to say on that, let's go into this.

Marlena: 2:17

We are the three of us. We're spiritual, we have this podcast. We bring coaches on by using discernment in who you're speaking to. You know we were talking offline about how we do want people to feel supported in their healing journeys. However that looks for you and some of these coaches and when I say some of these coaches, I'm at this point talking about Jeff and Shalia you know they're doing it for their own personal gain and not to help people truly, right?

Christy: 2:54

Yeah, and we can give them a little background right. Obviously, I don't expect everyone out there to know to watch these, but you know, jeff and Shalia, they there's backstory there, which I encourage you. If you want to see the background, check out the Amazon Prime documentary that gives you a lot of background on them personally. But from what they presented, I do believe that they believe they found their Twin Flame Union in each other. Like, I believe that there's a connection there for them. But just because you have a connection with another person doesn't mean that you have the formula right for everyone else in the world to find that same connection. And so, number one, that's the caution, right, like, just because you found it doesn't mean you have that special formula that you can give everyone else or sell everyone else. It's not one size fits all, is what I want to say. But there were some things in their background, right, jeff has changed his name a bunch of times. He claimed at one time to be able to cure cancer. So you know, looking back at that, you kind of have to scratch your head and okay, right, Like, are we really going to follow this dude?

Marlena: 4:02

Well, I mean, I'm watching the documentaries he always had like this entrepreneurial background of wanting to start businesses and always trying to make a quick buck. He went into school for business. So it was always about for him, or, based off of these documentaries and keep in mind, don't know the dude, don't know anything about him, you know, except for what I'm seeing on this documentary. But based off of that, he always wanted to start a business, he wanted to be a millionaire. And then you look at Shalia and she is this spiritual free spirit that believed in Twin Flames and was doing like the YouTubes and stuff like that before we had TikTok and stuff, so in coaching, in that way, and so when they met it, to me it seemed like she introduced him to the idea of, or the concept of, twin Flames.

Jamie: 5:03

Yeah, and it's during this time of a spiritual new age that is, I don't want to say trending, but becoming more popular, with people wanting to do better, being more spiritual, being more connected. So he meets this, this girl, and they do have a connection. I mean, both of them have said, like you know, it was a pretty instant connection. And then it's like this new concept and probably to him again don't know, I'm only know what I've watched, but probably to him he's like ah, I'm onto something here and we can be proof of it, right, because we are Twin Flames. So I mean, for me, when I first started watching this, I try and like keep a very unbiased opinion until it starts to not, you can't be unbiased anymore. This is what it is once you start seeing the details. But in the beginning I think this is great that you're taking this very pure concept and wanting to help people. That's in the very beginning. And you take this wonderful spirituality and selling this I don't want to say product, but this idea of bettering yourself, being a little more honest with yourself, being more open to the opportunities of finding your twinned flame. And I think what got me at first was when they were talking about this principle. They guaranteed finding true flame, a harmonious union, and it was like an ironclad guarantee. And I'm like, oh Lord, okay, like that was what? The first, I don't know first episode, first half hour of it. I'm like you're guaranteeing this, okay, here we go. But it just they take this beautiful idea and make it so twisted. So, anyways, we're talking about the very beginnings of a twin flame universe and that really tore me up.

Marlena: 6:57

Also, if you go onto the twin flame universe website, on the homepage it's this almost about me. Regarding Shaliyah, and her first paragraph is I remember what it was like feeling incomplete without my man, and I know that in our previous episode where we talked about twin flames and soulmates, none of us feel none of us meaning the three of us feel incomplete or felt incomplete without our spouses. But I also feel like I have to like pull myself back as well and be like okay, this is my brain, this is my reality, this is my perception, and so maybe she did. That's kind of where I'm. Well, for those who have watched this documentary, you know I'm almost wondering if she is like victim number one or if she's in on this mass manipulation kind of thing.

Christy: 7:58

I mean, when you were younger, did you ever feel like you had to find the one and, once you found the one, that everything in your life was going to be solved? Or have you always felt like no, I'm good?

Marlena: 8:10

You know, I don't remember, honestly because I mean, I've been married. You know both Vincent and my ex. I've been married since like 2000, basically, and you know, prior to that I was, you know, with my ex for a few years before we got married. So, like for the majority of my adult life I've been in a relationship. So I don't remember whether or not I felt incomplete without someone. To me, I'm like I've been with someone all my life. I don't know what it's like to not be in a relationship, gotcha, but I do remember like I loved the idea of being in love.

Christy: 8:49

Okay, Because I was. I was going to ask Jamie too, like, have you ever, did you feel like that growing up or no?

Jamie: 8:54

No, you know what? I never. It's funny because I think back to when I was a kid and you know I was never that kid of knowing exactly what I wanted to be. When I grew up, I never really had this picture perfect family, marriage and live happily ever after, and I knew I would be with someone. You know, I grew up and I know Marlena did too but we grew up with divorced parents and Kristie I apologize, I don't really. Yeah, your parents are still together, that's okay. Okay, I was like wait, I swear they're still together. So I don't know if I have this idea of like a perfect, harmonious one for all and all for one, like twin flame. I didn't even know what a twin flame was growing up. I heard of soulmates. You know twin flame wasn't a thing at that time. But I had always been in relationships too, okay, boyfriends, I was engaged at one point, so I was always with somebody and there was a period where I wasn't. And I'm thinking back to that time frame because that's where a lot of these people start right. They're very vulnerable. A lot of them just came out of relationships or were traumatized somehow in a relationship, depressed, lonely, and there was a time period where I was truly single, living on my own in my mid twenties and I could relate to a certain part of that because I did feel very lonely at times and my whole life for as young as I started dating and you know dating I'm doing that in quotation marks because in eighth grade I don't know what you call it. But yeah, right, but I was always with someone from junior high to like the time I got you know me and my ex fiance broke up. So I always had someone there and so I can kind of I can relate to the sense of the desperation and like now what I didn't have the end game in my head. I didn't. You know my gran, my soon to be marriage was not happening, but I just was scared to be alone. It was a new sensation for me. Actually, I take that back. I wasn't scared to be alone, I was just new and I can see where people would be desperate, wanting a connection. Maybe I'm lucky that this shit wasn't around when I was 25 and just lost my engagement, because I maybe would have been sucked in. I don't know. But yeah, I'm totally lost as to what the question originally was. But you get what I'm saying.

Christy: 11:25

Yeah, I was just asking because I can relate to it, because growing up it was you're going to find a husband, you're going to be a wife, right, and you have to find that person because they are your, they've been put here on earth by God for you, right? And so that was the message growing up is there is someone on this earth for you, perfectly designed by God, and you now have to find that person and you're not going to be complete and I don't know if that was actually said, right, or if that was just implied until you find this person and this person is going to make you better. You're going to be better because of this person. They're going to bring out the good qualities in you and, granted, in relationships, I believe that's how it should be. If you're with a person right, right, they should bring out the best qualities of you. But it was definitely ingrained in me that there was somebody who, like I, wasn't complete until this person came into my life, and so I can relate to those people, right, like reaching out for that, because I think there is some indoctrination, not just in religion, but even in, like our messages as women when you're young that there's a perfect person out there and you've got to find them. You've got to find them and you're not complete until you find them. Blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and then that's your quest. Like that's what you're doing as you're dating and you're going through, and I know that's not for everyone, but I just, you know, I can definitely see how these people got roped into it.

Marlena: 12:53

You only date to find your spouse Right, exactly, and that's what I was like Right and in that that wasn't something my mom or dad taught me so. But my parents didn't divorce until I was 30. So it wasn't like I grew up without them, like both of them were in the same household. But they never brought me up to be like you have to find a spouse and this is your life. But I also didn't grow up with organized religion. So, yeah, you know, for me I think it was just. I loved the idea of being in love, to have someone love me unconditionally, and as a teenager I had no idea of what that even meant. You know, I can only say that now, with my 47 year old brain and life experience. I had no life experience then.

Christy: 13:43

And that's why I wanted to get you know your perspective, because, you know, not everyone is growing up out there thinking that they've got to find their other half, right, you know, I'm completely whole on my own. Like you're just a compliment, you know Right, but there are a lot of people out there that still believe that, like you know, kind of like a fairy tale. Yeah, I got to find my, my person and it's not going to be a fairy tale, or it can't be a fairy tale until I find that person.

Marlena: 14:08

What kills me about Jeff and Shalia, though, is their harmonious union and attaining this harmonious union and, like you were saying, jamie, they guarantee this, and they have these spiritual powers, where only they are being told by God who everybody's twin flames are. By God, yeah, and so it's just unnerving to me, and they understand that I 100% believe in spiritual downloads, and, you know, having these thoughts and ideas being given to me from my higher self, or, you know, my spirit guides. I mean this podcast, again, you know that was a download for me, but I don't sit here and think that only one person or one couple is going to be told that this is who your twin flame is. I've been told by God you need to pursue this person and pursue them at all costs, whether or not you're going to go to jail for stalking, and you know things like that. So which in this documentary? It actually took place. Someone went to jail because there was a restraining order out on her, and she was stalking this man because she was told by Jeff and Shalia that this is her twin flame, and you know, one of the other things that was said was you can't be a twin flame pussy. You have to be a honeypatcher of love. Yes, and you know and pursue these people. Yeah, and I remember, you know, vince watched it with me a little bit and keep in mind, I was young when I first started dating him, so when we broke up I would drive past his house and, you know, do the things that you know teenagers, teenage girls. Well, okay, maybe it's just me, but you know, teenage girls yeah.

Christy: 16:09

Yeah.

Marlena: 16:11

I was heartbroken driving by his house and you know I would call this was when we had a pagers and it was like you know, you could leave voicemails on those pagers and I would actually break in. I would figure out and I don't know how I managed to figure out his code, but I would figure out his code to his pager and every time I heard another girl on there I changed his passcode. So when I was watching this and they were, you know, talking about the stocking and everything, he looks over at me and he was like well, sometimes stocking works. Sorry, just trying to make a little light of the subject.

Jamie: 16:52

Yeah, yeah, and it was so again different back when we were going through this right, because we didn't have the social medias and the photos and the snapchats and the TikToks to see and stock you know, virtually stock and see what they're doing and drive ourselves even more crazy when you would see shit, yeah.

Marlena: 17:13

But I do want to say stocking is stocking, it is illegal and you know boundaries, like people have boundaries for a reason. So stocking someone is not a good thing, just putting that out there. Stocking bad.

Christy: 17:27

Just a disclaimer yeah, stocking equals bad.

Jamie: 17:30

I think when that stuff started coming up, I was like, wow, they don't draw the line Again. Like you said, no boundaries, right, Once your Twin Flames been designated or pointed out or identified. There's the word. It is no holds part, go go. If they're married that's what they call it a whole or a block that has to be cleared right. If they have, you know, children, if they have told you that they don't want you or they put a restraining order against you, that's just a block. That's just a block. And so the one of the big concepts I wanted to talk about in regards to this is how much they turn it on you. So the whole mirror exercise right, that was, that was like key to their teaching and the mirror exercise of flipping everything back on you. You're doing this, you're causing it, and yeah, but again, the mirror exercise can be beneficial in certain ways but they tip them up for just having a great idea to manipulate you, and everything was the mirror exercise.

Christy: 18:39

Anything that happened right Like anything that happened, any like strife, any like I don't know.

Jamie: 18:46

My twin flame said I don't want you Mirror exercise, you don't want yourself. What Like? Come on. That's peace setting, peace setting about you. He's saying I don't like you, love you, leave me alone. What is that really saying? I don't like myself, I don't love myself, I'm leaving myself alone and that's not good. Like everything is your fault and that is such a mind fuck and the manipulation of this group to make it look like it's all on you and that's why you need us.

Marlena: 19:16

Yeah, so the mirror exercise, and I do believe that you know looking within and looking at yourself a lot of changes that. I've made in my life. I have been from self-reflection but, as you said, they use it as a form of manipulation. So, again, that's when discernment comes into play, and I guess it's good that I still have my analytical, logical mind where I'm like I don't know, you know, but also like trusting your gut If something feels not right, you know, like someone saying no, please continue to pursue this person that has a restraining order out on you. You know, jail is not a real thing and it's a block, you know. I mean that's.

Jamie: 20:05

It's a big block. It's called a sub block, right, yeah, but yeah, I mean that for sure is just kind of ridiculous.

Marlena: 20:13

It's like, and when that person went to jail and then came back, I mean she went back to the Twin Flame universe and to these coachings, and, oh my God, what did he say? Oh, he said so you going to jail for pursuing your Twin Flame? Does that make you a criminal or a spiritual master?

Christy: 20:34

I was like and I was like yeah, I'm like criminals, I'm gonna go with criminal.

Jamie: 20:41

I was like A Final answer Legally criminal. Final answer yeah, and I think that's my not the only problem. But, right off the bat, the biggest problem I had with this group and what Jeff and Shilia were doing is taking these pure concepts and actual tools that can help a person to self better and be you know, connect a little bit more spiritually and be more connected with themselves and being able to work on truly the things that we need to work on inside so that one day maybe we can really meet that Twin Flame, because we ourselves are ready for it, because you know you gotta love yourself first and then hopefully find that person that's right for you. And you know we're all in different phases of that. I mean, let's be honest, we're all still working on self love, but you understand what I'm trying to say. And they take these concepts that truly do work and used it for manipulation on the vulnerable and the depressed and people just trying to seek love, and I to dive into how they, the LGBTQ community, trying to say we embrace them, we love the community, we're all about being who you are and then yet flipping that on people to convince them of who they are. So and that was another big one the whole divine masculine and divine feminine, and the way that they defined it and we've talked about that too on the show was really disturbing, right.

Marlena: 22:14

So in that concept, so the whole Twin Flame concept and again, I'm such a skeptic when it comes to Twin Flames, I believe in soulmates, I 100% believe in soulmates the Twin Flame concept is something that is lost on me, it just doesn't resonate with me. But in this concept there is a divine masculine and divine feminine In a soul, basically, you're balanced. You know you have both divine masculine, divine feminine. This Twin Flame concept, based off of what Jeff and Shalia are teaching, the soul is split and one person is a divine masculine, one person is a divine feminine. In this Twin Flame union, you are not both period At all, what so ever? Yeah, you're one or the other, right. So I am divine feminine and you know, vince is the masculine to that, and I have to be feminine in that I have to be subservient and I have to give my man sex whenever he wants to, even if I don't want to, and I can't set boundaries and you know I can't tell him what to do and I can't do this, I can't do that. And so they're talking about all of this in a community that is primarily women and they're not finding their Twin Flames. So then, jeff and Shalia, get these downloads, that your Twin Flame is actually within this community and, christy, you are now my Twin Flame, but you're more feminine than me. So now I'm the man, and it is highly suggested at this point that in this scenario, I would need to transition.

Christy: 24:09

You would need to present more masculine Right.

Marlena: 24:12

Like, yeah, and they sit there and tell you to cut your hair, and you know, change your name, change your name present as more masculine.

Jamie: 24:21

And I know in the first documentary again, I didn't finish the second one on Amazon I know there were a few that went through top half surgeries because they were so convinced that this is what they needed to do to embrace their Twin Flame and never once expressed a possibility of maybe being any kind of ideas of being anything but what they were until Jeff and Shalia stepped in. So it was very disturbing how far they took it because, as Marlena was saying, they started finding twin flames within the community because, guess what, their process wasn't working. People weren't finding their twin flames. So now it was like, oh shit, we have this ironclad guarantee we better start matchmaking. And so downloads, like you said, would come and all of a sudden, oh, guess what? Your twin flames been here this whole time. It's the person right over here in the group. Oh, imagine that. Like, that's just such bullshit, right, it's not working.

Marlena: 25:19

And then those that said, no, this doesn't resonate with me. This is not what I want to do. They were ostracized, I mean they were kicked out of the group.

Christy: 25:28

Yeah, but it like it's a good point, right? So if there is that much control in a group and there's no room for questions, there's no room for questioning or like express, like saying no, that's not how I feel. And if the coach advisor is like no, that is how you feel, that's a warning sign, that's a red flag. Yeah, there should be a back and forth, right? You're both human beings and so Marlena doesn't know my experience, like I know my experience, right, she can try to relate to my experience, but she can't tell me no, you are masculine, right, like you are the divine masculine you need to. You are right, like no, I'm sorry, I actually know me.

Marlena: 26:09

So, christy you are now Chris.

Christy: 26:12

You are just Chris. No, I'm not, you're Christopher, so yeah, right, no, no, and.

Marlena: 26:17

But that's what he would say in these coachings. It's so crazy.

Christy: 26:21

Yeah Well, and it was in a big forum too, right. So there's a lot of other people around, so they're calling people out, and so in those circumstances I can imagine just wanting it to be over, like just not wanting to continue in, like being berated, right. I wouldn't want that either. So then just kind of accepting it or shutting down because you're in front of other peers in your community.

Marlena: 26:43

And with these couples and not just the couples that were forced to transition or that had someone in there that was forced to transition, but just any couple that found quote you know harmonious union. They were coached to post pictures on their Facebook groups and, you know, in this group and highlight everything that they were doing so that everybody could say, oh, that's what I want. And they were told to go on there and thank Jeff and Shalia for their union. And there was one point where Jeff said they are an important product of this work. Not that they are doing the work themselves and, you know, making their relationship work, but it's Jeff and Shalia that brought them together and that's why they are staying together. But they also promoted, like an 18 year old girl, to move across the country to be with a much older man who was a criminal, who was a drug addict, who she did not like or even love, and then tell everybody how in love she is with him, because this is what they were manipulating her to do.

Jamie: 28:04

And the coaches were manipulated into doing this.

Marlena: 28:08

So this whole twin flame universe turned into an MLM, which is just crazy to me.

Jamie: 28:18

Disturbing in itself.

Christy: 28:20

And so the people that were harmed were then doing harm, and so that's just a whole nother level of just trauma that these people now have to deal with and unwind and forgive themselves for because they believed some of them probably believed it and they were coaching others. And you know then, I know the one girl that got out in the Netflix series that was a huge thing for her was I have to come to grips that I caused harm with these people that I coached because I was coaching them in the way that I was coached. She was brainwashed too.

Jamie: 28:55

This is what she truly felt. She was doing good by these people and helping them and believed in the process and Jeff and Shalia. And when you step out of that and you have your moment of oh my God, I got to get out of this. This is crazy. I mean you get out and then it's the whole repercussions of what you have to deal with that you did. I mean, they were also brainwashed, they were also manipulated. It wasn't like I think they were part of the grand scheme of what Jeff and Shalia were doing. They believed in it. And then, of course, he'll adamantly and obviously during the show you see the disclaimers at the end that they adamantly. You know, this is not a cult. This is not a cult. And there's very cult like characteristics, feelings, characteristics when they started talking about how they were going to build this compound or whatever I call it compound. He didn't use word compound, but the building, the new building for them, and they're all going to live on this big land in trailers while they build their new building. I'm like, oh, there's a cult. And then he started making his different programs. He had the map, he had the food and the church. Now he had a church. I'm like, oh, cult. And then he started calling himself you know he is Jesus Christ, because he looked like him in those photos. Oh, now you're a god. I mean, come on. And then the way he would berate people like you were saying Kristi, calling them out and berating them for not listening to him. You're fucking dumb. You're a dumb bitch, and you know it got to the hierarchy level of. I am the one even to his wife, even to his wife, which me and Marlena were discussing like you. Look at her body language. I'm quite certain she's a victim at some point too, so okay, that's a question I have for you guys.

Marlena: 30:47

Do you think she's victim number one, or do you think that she is in on this, or is it a combination of both? I think it's a combination of both.

Christy: 30:58

And I'm just going to say this, like based on again what I've watched right, so her upbringing was religious, right, and so I think. And then she was diving into the very spiritual aspects, right, right. So I think there is both, I think she believes it, but I also think that there's probably a victim in there as well, because I've watched her body language as well and I'm like, oof, right, but then sometimes her body language is like don't mess with me kind of thing, or like there's tension there, and I'm like, okay, all right, because in a lot of the videos, or the videos that they showed on the documentary.

Marlena: 31:37

she basically repeats everything that Jeff says, I mean, and there's one point where Jeff says this is everyone's story. Talking about, like you know, someone's love story, this is everyone's story. And then Shaliyah says this is everyone's story. And then Jeff says this is the story of falling in love. And immediately Shaliyah says this is the story of love. Falling in love, yes, for the last time. So we're just going to continue to repeat each other over and over again. But it's when I was watching that I was like are you not allowed to have your own thoughts? That's the exact kind of situation. But also, if you watch the Amazon documentary and her stepdad is on there, I got a Nikki vibe off him. Yeah, I was like, okay, I can kind of see, like you know, just I don't even think it was anything that he the words that he said, but how he said it, and just again the vibe that came off, I was like you know she was in search of this twin flame to escape maybe what was taking place at home.

Jamie: 32:47

Yeah, and then her mom died young, like she was 15. Well, when Shaliyah was 15.

Marlena: 32:52

I just got yeah, I got a Nikki vibe off him, his crocodile tears of. You. Know, I treat Megan as if she's dead. I don't know the Shaliyah person and but if she were to ever come back and I was like that doesn't seem sincere to me, like I don't, I don't feel it, like you're the other thing about that Netflix special and this is not trying to justify or or anything that Shaliyah and Jeff are doing but then bringing in, like Shaliyah, megan's childhood friend, who she hasn't seen for like 20, 30 years, and it's like she's like she's changed so much. It's like, well, yeah, most people change in a period of 20 or 30 years, you know, for the good or better.

Christy: 33:40

That's so funny. Brian said the same thing. He was like he's all, yeah, of course they've changed. Like if you haven't seen them since eighth grade, you don't know them anymore.

Jamie: 33:47

You know like you just like right, okay, you know, I think in the Amazon one there was like a ex-girlfriend of Jeff's From eighth grade. Yeah, she was like well, you know, I mean we were boyfriend and girlfriend, I guess, and like the eighth grade, like she even like puts it out there like it's been a long time yeah.

Marlena: 34:10

That one I was just like oh yeah, they're just some of them. I felt like we're doing it just to be on the documentary. And then Jeff's friend, who Jeff and Shalie lived with him in 2015 and he goes to leave this message for Jeff and he's like you know, I hope you're in there somewhere, kind of thing, and I was like, okay, you guys are just taking it a little too far for the camera at this point. Now, this is active, yeah.

Christy: 34:43

And I'm like Brian and I were like there's no way that he would have been able to leave that long ass voicemail message on it. You would have heard a beep. If you're happy with your recording, please press one. If you want to rerecord, please press two. And I was like yeah, it's a long time. I was like this is a long message. Yeah, it pauses. And I'm like okay.

Marlena: 35:02

So again discernment.

Christy: 35:03

Yeah, discernment. Yeah, what one of these?

Marlena: 35:05

documentaries as well.

Christy: 35:06

Yeah, I did want to say, though, like I think, and part of one of the characteristics of a cult is a charismatic leader, and so Shalia, to me, isn't charismatic, and Jeff definitely is, and even from the interviews people were saying, yes, he was always very charismatic and outgoing and that sort of thing. So I also wonder is it just the natural way that it fell Like he's more charismatic, he can hold more conversations, so that's just how it worked out when? So I wonder that too.

Marlena: 35:39

Yeah, and that's your point there, because he is the one that talks and again, he has this business background and wanting to have this business, whereas Shalia just wants to sit with crystals and get downloads from the universe.

Jamie: 35:56

And hey, girlfriend, I feel you on that, like I'm right there with you. Reach out to her. Shalia, we'll have a meditation session together, without your man Twice, if you're okay.

Marlena: 36:07

Right. So with that, I totally get that, but at the same time I don't know if I don't want to say how much of a victim she is, because I do feel like that, based off of the documentary and again, I don't know these people and I'm only seeing what everybody else is seeing but I'm just like I don't know. For me personally, and I guess it's because of who I am and the way my brain works and how I feel, I don't think that I could be in that type of situation and be like, yeah, I think we're doing the right thing by taking everybody's money and making them. We're going to turn them into coaches. But in order for them to be coaches, they have to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to take our coaching classes and continue to take our coaching classes and continue to give us all of their money. And now we have this nice house on a lake and driving horses and everything, and she's sitting there bragging about all of that as well.

Jamie: 37:18

Yeah, I don't know if it's an act when they're on their show as far as their true dynamic in their relationship. Oh my God, the subservient picture they paint in this cult or this group, or with him and his wife, literally boils my blood every time. The divine mask and divine feminine and you will be subservient to your divine masculine. And my brain went to because, you do notice, I didn't see one guy interviewed on the show as a member. Now, were they married to one of them and they were brought into it? Yes, but as one seeking. I didn't see one that was ever a guy and I just think, oh my God, can you imagine, like their teachings and go pursue your woman at all costs and her not wanting you is just a block, keep pursuing. Because he would say things like tell him, tell him that you want to have sex right now. He's going to come over Like can you imagine the abuse and the sexual abuse that would occur or could occur in these situations?

Marlena: 38:28

Yeah, that's what was being insinuated with some of these twin flame unions. Yeah, scary shit.

Jamie: 38:34

Yeah, talk about going to jail. I just wanted to say that, because it was an observation of mine, is that I didn't see men who joined the group looking for their twin flame. The majority of them that I saw at least that I saw were women and I just thought, man, if this was flipped and he's just convincing them to pursue at all costs, oh my God, like that was disturbing to think about, so very scary. And if you are in a twin flame union, like Marlene appointed at earlier, your man wants sex, you have to give it to them, whether you want it or not. So it's still rape, even if you're married. You know, I mean, it's just that's scary shit. That's all.

Christy: 39:14

You deem the self of God, and well, there you go, yeah and so you know, I kind of want to go back to you. Know we keep saying use your discernment, right if it doesn't resonate with you. But I want to also give people something, because some people don't have that discernment. You're young, you don't have experience or you just really don't know. So first of all, if a coach or an organization is Is isolating you from your entire family and your friends and trying to get you away from them right, completely, that's red flag number one because, mm-hmm, your coaches, your spiritual mentors, they shouldn't be encouraging you to leave your entire life behind. Now I understand when there's trauma and you've got trauma in the family. There's extenuating circumstances to that and I'm not a therapist so I'm not gonna talk to that. But like they shouldn't just be like, oh, your mom, who you've never had a problem with, she's terrible, you need to leave her right. Like you need to get away from your entire she's a block, right, she's a block you need. Yeah, so that is red flag number one. And then we've already talked about the charismatic leader, right, and sometimes that's hard to kind of separate because you're like, oh, you're drawn to this person and you're like excited about what they have to say. But the other part that we've talked about is the exploitation of the group members, right. So the money and then, and lots of thousands of dollars for these classes, and then we didn't really touch on it, but they were working for free within this twin flame universe Organization. So where they, they were giving these heady titles, but they were working for free, and that's exploitation, right. So your Mentors and spiritual network Should not be asking you to work for free, should not be exploiting you. You should be. You know, if you're working for them, you should be compensated. So, and then the indoctrination, brainwashing, right, which is for people in it is really hard to tell, right, when they're in it, and it's really hard to tell until they get out of it. And so I would just encourage people to, you know, kind of the first three, like am I being isolated? Am I being exploited? Is this person promising me more than anyone else in the world could deliver. Right, they're promised, they're guaranteeing me that I can, I'm gonna meet my twin flame. Yeah, right, like anytime somebody guarantees something like that, it's a red flag, right. And you know, even with, I think, about the people who are like I guarantee a six-figure income in six months, right, and you're just kind of like no experience necessary, you know that kind of thing. You know, let's take a step back, right, like how many people can actually do that? So let's just let's, you know, be cautious and yeah. So those are kind of the top things that I just wanted to leave you with. If you just don't have that discernment yet or you're just like I don't know right, he seemed cool, you know.

Marlena: 42:04

Yeah, yeah, you know one of the things. And I've worked with a number of mentors and coaches and the first mentor that I worked with, she flat out said I'm teaching you this stuff so that you don't have to keep coming back to me. You have the tools in your arsenal to be able to, you know, work through Certain situations. Yeah, you know, you shouldn't have to continue to come back to me and to continue With all of these teachings. I'm giving you all of the tools that you need so that you don't have to come back. Right, and that's something that's always stuck with me. And I've also worked with the coaches where, or I've met with coaches where I was like, yeah, I don't think this is for me, this doesn't resonate, or it just didn't feel good. You know, trust your gut, just trust your gut, yeah.

Christy: 42:58

Yeah, all right, and with that that's another episode. We've wrapped it. Look at us, ladies. Thank you so much for listening. I know this was maybe a little bit different, but our original for our normal format, but I enjoyed it and I hope you enjoyed it too. Go to WMF pod comm to interact with us and look for past episodes and then, wherever you are, listening to this podcast. We would love it if you would like subscribe. That would really help us and we will be back next week. Thank you so much. Bye.